jueves, febrero 17, 2005

¿Quién carga con la prueba? ¿Y quién está afirmando algo?

Los escépticos debemos ser conscientes de nuestras limitaciones. Si bien existe la verdad, quien la busque debe proceder con cautela, porque a menudo es difícil llegar a la verdad, a veces imposible.

Uno de nuestros argumentos favoritos contra los charlatanes es la "carga de la prueba", a saber: quien hace una afirmación debe demostrarla. Pero es incompleto.

Esta es una herramienta muy útil en una agumentación, pero algunas personas parecen tener algunas ideas equivocadas respecto del verdadero alcance de la misma. Para empezar, hay que ser consciente de que esto es así porque a menudo es difícil o imposible demostrar verdades negativas. Y este argumento mal usado puede ser muy destructivo.

Una afirmación es correcta o errónea independientemente de su demostración. Me explico: una afirmación es verdadera si se corresponde con la realidad, la demostración tiene por objeto hacernos ver a nosotros humanos que la afirmación se corresponde a la realidad. Por ejemplo, si a Claudio Ptolomeo se le ocurría decir que muchas enfermedades eran causadas por seres microscópicos habría estado en lo correcto, pero no habría tenido manera de demostrarlo en aquel entonces porque no existía la tecnología necesaria.

Pero algunas personas (si, escépticos también) han hecho un axioma multiuso con la carga de la prueba y creen que una afirmación es falsa mientras no aparezcan pruebas. En realidad, si no hay pruebas para una afirmación, la respuesta correcta es NO SABEMOS.

Hay que tener cuidado al manejar la carga de la prueba en un debate, porque los escépticos también hacemos afirmaciones exigibles de pruebas (aunque nuestros oponentes charlatanes generalmente no las pidan). Si nuestro oponente de debate nos presenta pruebas que consideramos insuficientes, estamos haciendo una afirmación ( "tus pruebas no son válidas" ) que tenemos que fundamentar.

"Ausencia de evidencia no es evidencia de ausencia" (Carl Sagan). Esta parte tienden a olvidarla algunos, sobre todo los ateos.

El ateísmo NO es racional a pesar de lo que muchos ateos pretenden, es un acto de fe equiparable a la fe religiosa. ¿Y la carga de la prueba? El ateísmo SI tiene una carga de prueba porque implica una afirmación, "Dios no existe", y entonces es exigible la carga de la prueba. Yo también puedo jugar con la carga de la prueba y mostrarme escéptico respecto a su afirmación de la inexistencia de Dios. Si no hay pruebas en uno u otro sentido, la respuesta racional es NO SABEMOS. O sea, una postura agnóstica. Los ateos afirman, y de hecho lo dicen, por ejemplo, en la sección "Preguntas Frecuentes" de la página Sin Dioses:

"¿Por qué niegan la existencia de Dios?:
Esa pregunta no es justa. Cuando los creyentes hacen ésta pregunta están dando por sentado que la existencia de Dios está ya demostrada. Lo que hacemos los ateos no es una negación, sino la afirmación que los dioses (Amón Rá, Jehová, Quetzacoatl, Bochica, etc.) son seres imaginarios sin correspondencia en el mundo real."

La pregunta sí es justa. En sus propias palabras están AFIRMANDO que todos esos dioses son imaginarios. ¿Dónde quedó eso de que quien hace la afirmación tiene la carga de la prueba?
Así que muchos ateos deberían dejar de disfrazarse de racionalistas y decir que la razón dice cosas que no dice.

¿Que importancia tiene esto para un escéptico? Tener en claro nuestro lugar. Nosotros en realidad no demostramos que la homeopatía, la astrología, y el resto del circo ese no puedan funcionar. Lo que podemos demostrar (y de hecho lo hacemos) es que quienes realizan determinadas afirmaciones ("la astrología funciona", "la homeopatía sirve") no tienen pruebas.

(continuará...)

316 Comments:

Anonymous seti said...

Con tu párrafo:
"La pregunta sí es justa. En sus propias palabras están AFIRMANDO que todos esos dioses son imaginarios. ¿Dónde quedó eso de que quien hace la afirmación tiene la carga de la prueba?
Así que muchos ateos deberían dejar de disfrazarse de racionalistas y decir que la razón dice cosas que no dice." terminas de perder la poca razón que te quedaba. ¿Tenemos que probar que vuestros dioses son imaginarios?. Vamos, hombre, lo quereis todo mascadito. Es cuestión de razonar lo absurdo del antropocentrismo, sin más. Y como no soy agnóstico, pues te apañas tú solito que yo lo tengo superado.
Claro que, llamándose el blog, "El escéptico cristiano", podrías hablar de "beligerante benevolencia" o de "ermitaños unidos" por no decir el manido "inteligencia militar"

2:48 p. m.  
Blogger El Escéptico Cristiano said...

Tu rabieta, además de no constituir argumento alguno, demuestra que no entendiste nada de lo que escribí. El simple hecho de que algo te parezca absurdo, o lo sientas superado, no es un argumento en sí. Tampoco caigas en el reduccionismo de limitar la discusión al antropocentrismo.
Evidentemente si me llamo escéptico cristiano es porque considero que ambos términos no son antagónicos, siempre y cuando estén bien establecidas las limitaciones de cada uno.

11:53 a. m.  
Anonymous seti said...

Pues si a todo el que te contraría le contestas lo de la rabieta, me temo que eres un mal polemista o discutidor (ambos términos son populares en España).
Dices;"El simple hecho de que algo te parezca absurdo, o lo sientas superado, no es un argumento en sí". Creo que el que no ha entendido nada eres tú. Yo no pretendía dar argumentos, sólo critico los tuyos que es cosa bien distinta. Pero aún así, deberías saber que es también puede ser válido un argumento como reducción al absurdo.
Obviamente, todos sabemos que escéptico y cristiano no son términos antagónicos. Son, simplemente, inmiscibles.
Ah, y no te piques, hombre, que el debate es sano.
Saludos.

10:40 a. m.  
Blogger Asigan said...

"Una afirmación es correcta o errónea independientemente de su demostración. Me explico: una afirmación es verdadera si se corresponde con la realidad, la demostración tiene por objeto hacernos ver a nosotros humanos que la afirmación se corresponde a la realidad. Por ejemplo, si a Claudio Ptolomeo se le ocurría decir que muchas enfermedades eran causadas por seres microscópicos habría estado en lo correcto, pero no habría tenido manera de demostrarlo en aquel entonces porque no existía la tecnología necesaria.""

En ningún caso puede decirse que Ptolomeo supiera la causa de esas enfermedades. Lo que la tenología apropiada le hubiera permitido a Ptolomeo es algo más que demostrar que su afirmación era verdad, le hubiera permitido saber cual era la causa en una manera real. En otras condiciones, solo tendría una creencia injustificada, y el contenido definitivo de verdad sería anecdótico.

Sin embargo, quien llamra a Ptolomeo a que sostuviera sus afrimaciones, y en tanto no lo hiciera las rechazara, estaría actuando correctamente.

Yo soy agnóstico formal, aunque íntimamente soy ateo. Es decir, tengo una opinión formada sobre la cuestión que consiste en pensar que no existe Dios. A esto no puede llamársele saber, por eso, respecto ala respuesta definitiva, al conocimeinto, uno hace bien en ser agnóstico. Pero las opiniones son comparables entre si, en función de los razonamientos que las sustentan y pueden evaluarse unas respecto de otras. En mi opinión, y, como digo, es algo que se puede evaluar objetivamente, la creencia según la cual Dios no existe es más sólida que la contraria.

10:22 a. m.  
Blogger El Escéptico Cristiano said...

En efecto, si de la carga de la prueba solamente dependiera coincidiría contigo, pero hay otras cuestiones relacionadas como el mal, la muerte o el origen del universo que me llevan a pensar lo contrario.

2:22 p. m.  
Blogger Asigan said...

Pues sería interesante saber de ellas. Aunque comprendo bien que la sección de comentarios de un blog no es uno adecuado para debates extensos.Un saludo.

1:28 a. m.  
Blogger El Escéptico Cristiano said...

Ya te contaré mas al respecto, está entre las muchas cosas que pienso ir escribiendo en este blog, aunque me tome tiempo. Saludos!

1:28 p. m.  
Anonymous mistermaguf said...

Escéptico Cristiano:

Tu artículo es una falacia por donde se lo mire.

Dices:
"El ateísmo SI tiene una carga de prueba porque implica una afirmación, "Dios no existe", y entonces es exigible la carga de la prueba. Yo también puedo jugar con la carga de la prueba y mostrarme escéptico respecto a su afirmación de la inexistencia de Dios."

Estás confundiendo dos campos de análisis distintos, la semántica y la lógica, y en ninguno de ellos tienes razón.

A menos que creas que la semántica se rija mediante la magia, una negación nunca puede ser una afirmación. Una negación es una aseveración negativa, no una afirmación.

Y en el campo de la lógica, lo que se discute (por afirmativa o por negativa) es la existencia de una entidad, y ésta debe haberse propuesto de manera afirmativa.
Nadie discutiría acerca de la no existencia de una entidad que no se haya postulado previamente de manera positiva.
Por lo tanto, si alguien niega que exista un ente X, es porque previamente existe una definición positiva de tal ente sobre la que se discute.
Por lo tanto está más claro que el agua que la carga de la prueba recae absolutamente sobre quién haya postulado (o defienda la existencia de) tal ente.

El ateo, o el agnóstico, como es mi caso, postulamos básicamente que nada de lo que conocemos hasta ahora acerca del universo nos induce a pensar que tal entidad, definida por los creyentes, sea necesaria. Cierto que podremos argumentar nuestra posición mejor o peor, pero el no recurrir a tal entidad nos exime completamente de cualquier carga probatoria acerca de la misma.
Es entonces un absurdo que se nos exijan pruebas acerca de una entidad que no existe en nuestra argumentación, y que por lo tanto no ha sido definida por ningún ateo o agnóstico.

Y desde el punto de vista filosófico, de lo que se trata es si existe o no una entidad conocida como "Dios". En última instancia, ¿mi negación acerca del mismo afecta su existencia? A mí me da igual; el que debe buscar las pruebas -si es consecuente con su afirmación- es aquél que sostiene su existencia, no ya para convencer a los demás sino para ser coherente consigo mismo.

Pero hasta ahora, no he visto, por parte de los creyentes, más argumentaciones que emocionales (llámensela "sensitivas", "intuitivas" o como se quiera). Como las tuyas:

"En efecto, si de la carga de la prueba solamente dependiera coincidiría contigo, pero hay otras cuestiones relacionadas como el mal, la muerte o el origen del universo que me llevan a pensar lo contrario."

Es decir, escribes un artículo acerca de la carga de la prueba, y a continuación te desdices diciendo que eso no es lo importante para mantener tu creencia. No parece nada serio.

Saludos.

7:34 a. m.  
Anonymous esteban said...

Poco serios tus comentarios Esceptico cristiano

Por lo visto eres muy mal esceptico y peor cristiano!!

Si yo afirmo que existe un enano verde con el culo rojo en el centro de la tierra...¿por tu teorema de inversion de la carga...nadie podria decir que es una estupidez, porque se deberia mostrar su inexistencia?

Muy pobre lo tuyo

5:40 p. m.  
Blogger CRÍTICOS said...

Con el despertar de la fiebre por la temática de las "cargas probatorias dinámicas" o "carga dinámica de la prueba", se ha generado una oleada de jurisprudencia latinoamericana que reconoce la favorabilidad probatoria (favor probationes), como medida aliviante frente al rigorismo de las reglas clásicas.

Los principales propulsores de esta doctrina han sido el español Muñoz Sabaté y en Argentina, los doctores Ronald Arazi, Jorge Peyrano, Augusto Morello, Aida Kemelmajer de Carlucci, Ines Lepori White, Juan Alberto Rambaldo, Ricardo Lorenzetti y Enrique Falcón, entre otros. Sin embargo, destaca la relativamente reciente obra del colombiano Juan Trujillo Cabrera, quien le dió estructura al concepto de la favorabilidad probatoria e incluso edificó una verdadera teoría jurídica, tomando como punto de referencia el positivismo jurídico y la nueva filosofía del Derecho.

Con este vuelco de las cargas probatorias, la viejas doctrinas de Devis Echandía, Couture, Guasp, Michelli, Lessona, Rosenberg y Gorphe, estan quedando en completo desuso y parecen convertirse en solo historia del Derecho Procesal.

9:12 a. m.  
Anonymous WenSes said...

Me asusta un poco que muchas personas solo cierren su conocimiento al realismo más puro y duro o en el otro extremo, al más fuerte idealismo y solo al conocimiento discursivo racional. Por esa vía es muy difícil lograr avances en el descubrimiento de Dios (porque si la sola definición de Dios implica una realidad más allá de los limites humanos, es muy difícil tratar de reducir esta realidad a una terminología netamente humana y simple sin caer en simplismos o circunloquios que a la larga solo entorpecen o debilitan nuestra comprensión). Ojalá investigaran un poco acerca de tendencias como el realismo volitivo (Scheler) por ej. o sobre el conocimiento intuitivo para ver que existen formas de conocer a Dios más allá de la justificación verbal.

En cuanto a la carga de la prueba. No es tan simple como decir "el que afirma prueba". Esa es una norma de las tantas que se pueden aplicar al caso. Una afirmación, cierto es, debe probarse (en un ámbito jurídico al menos) por quien la realiza, sin embargo, si esta afirmación es controvertida por otra afirmación, pues quien controvierte debería también demostrar sus afirmaciones. A su vez, planteo la siguiente pregunta ¿si pruebo mis afirmaciones frente a un contradictor, a quien estoy probando? Esto, porque normalmente quien contradice en un ámbito como el señalado, esta normalmente convencido de su creencia más allá de las pruebas que puedan afirmarse... si hubiere un tercero indeciso, es muy probable que en ese caso, la prueba fuere útil y ahí tendría (esto ya es mi opinión) sentido la carga de la prueba... pero si la contienda es de dos, es muy difícil que la carga de la prueba sirva para algo, y esto por la razón que la prueba misma tiene por finalidad intrínseca la convicción de a quien se le prueba.

Aun así, es un tema de muchas aristas... demasiadas para un comentario. Saludos

5:01 a. m.  
Anonymous SeolhadeS said...

dios no existe
no es una afirmacion es la respuesta.

ñ.ñ

oh god!!!!!!!!

*breve resume de lo que dijo mistermaguf xddddddd

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